A Bad Movie Is A Bad Movie No Matter What It Was ‘Trying’ To Do

Posted by on August 4, 2010 at 9:20 am.

Step-Up-Sucks.jpgI always say that “The most beautiful thing about film is the pure subjectivity of it”. That ultimately means that while we can argue and debate and discuss our points of view on a movie, when it comes down to it there really is no absolute right or wrong. Film is art, and as art every person who sees it will experience it and have it effect them in a slightly different way. 10 people can stand around a work of art and yet see 10 different things. It’s the most amazing thing about the movies and makes our debates about them just that much more fun.

With that being said, I can accept that some people find “Meet the Spartans” funny even though I didn’t (and I think they’re crazy). I can accept that some people thought the story of “Avatar” was really good even when I didn’t, and we can debate the merits thereof.

But one of the things I don’t accept is when someone tries to use the INTENT of the filmmakers as an argument for a movie’s quality. That somehow, what a director was “going for” can be seen as a replacement for actual results.

I don’t care if a director was trying to show the struggle of single mothers living in a male dominated society making it almost impossible to move ahead while caring for their families at the same time. Yes, that’s a noble subject matter to tackle. Yes, that’s a great starting point… but it doesn’t negate the fact that the movie was slow, had bad dialog, terrible characters and no emotional triggers. No matter what the director was TRYING TO SAY with his/her movie, they still didn’t say it well, and it’s a bad movie.

This always frustrates me when people I’m talking with try to portray a films weakness as if it were a strength. Like “Meet the Spartans”. The film was just pure stupidity in its most undiluted form. Yet some people have argued with me that since “stupidity” is what the director was going for, it should be seen as a success. WHAT?!?!?!

Here’s an Olympic analogy I like to use:

Picture this scene. It’s the Olympic games in China and we’re at the diving competition. A German diver stands majestically at the base of the diving board as cameras flash around him in a dance of light like an indoors arora borealis. The crowd starts to quite down and the flashes die off. The arena is now calm and quite and the German diver extends up onto his toes, bounces, and then quickly strides up the diving board… gives one giant bounce… flies up into the air…. and then when in the air he inexplicably starts flailing around like an injured bird with his arms and legs kicking everywhere and eventually comes crashing down onto the water in a smaking belly flop. The majestic diver looked more like an 8 year old fat kid making his very first jump off a board than a world class olympic diver and the results were horrible. The judges show their scores that average out to be about 0.5 out of 10. The German finishes in last place.

The German diver and his coach angrily run up to the judges podium and protest! “Why did you give me such a low score?” the German demands. “Because your dive was terrible with no form, no grace, no technique and it all resulted in a terrible belly flop. That’s why.” respond the judges. “But…” the German shoots back at them, “That’s exactly what I was TRYING to do. That’s what I was going for!”

So the question is… since a horrible, graceless, ugly and awful dive is exactly what the diver was going for… should the judges re-evaluate their scores and give him a 10? Or should the judges stick with their score because regardless of intent, a bad dive is a bad dive and should be scored as such?

To me, the answer to that question is obvious. If a dive was ugly and awful to watch with little to no merit to it, then regardless of intent, it was still an ugly, awful to watch dive with little to no merit. Period.

Even today some people defend the film “Step Up 3D”. Because I believe all film is subjective I can completely accept if someone found the story solid even when I did not. I can accept someone finding the characters interesting even when I did not. I can accept someone thinking the movie is “good” while I think it’s a steaming pile of shit. That’s all totally fair…. but the funny thing is that most of the people who defend this movie aren’t actually claiming it’s any good. They’re just saying the dancing is great.

The Motocross in “Supercross” was great too… does that mean it was a good movie? No.

Here’s another analogy. Let’s say you have a movie with some of the worst acting in history, a terrible script, no pace, and we’re pretty sure the camera was out of focus half the time. BUT… the movie was about a young girl trying to make it in New York in the fashion industry, and the clothes in the film were some of the best designed clothes you’ve ever seen! Is it ok to give the movie a passing grade just because the director was trying to make a movie about fashion and the fashion in the film was great? NO!!!!! The movie still sucked no matter how good the clothes in it were.

Again, I have no problem with someone disagreeing over the quality of a movie. I just hate it when “but that’s what they were going for” is used an excuse.

/RANT.

  • Bruce

    Would I be correct in thinking that you are trying to say that a movie’s value to an individual is subjective while the quality in which the movie was made in is objective?

    If that’s the case, then I don’t think what you are saying really argues against the justification of the “that’s what they were going for” defense.

    Like you (and I) may think that “Meet the Spartans” was a complete pile of stupid. But if they wanted to make a complete pile of stupid and there are people out there that enjoy complete piles of stupid who enjoyed the movie. Then the value of that movie falls under the subjective category.

    However, if they were trying to make a complete pile of stupid, but instead made the movie “Up”… then you couldn’t even use the “that’s what they were going for” defense. So in a sense… they would have failed for “what they were going for” and still would have made what we would subjectively call a great movie.

  • John Campea

    Hey Bruce,

    I’m certainly not saying someone can’t enjoy “Meet the Spartans”. Like I said in the post, if someone watched and enjoyed that film for what it was… then i can think you’re crazy and debate you on it, but when it comes down to it it’s all subjective.

    HOWEVER….

    Tell me that you liked the style of humor in that movie… that’s fair… but don’t tell me it’s a “good” movie because it does what it intended to do. That’s not valid.

  • Dave

    Great analogy & Meet the Spartans is a very poor movie, almost as bad as The Land That Time Forgot (2009). Also, I’m a little unsure as to what Bruce is trying to say, I guess there’s your audience for utterly poor movies.

  • Bruce

    Maybe I’m just not understanding what John is trying to say…

    If John is saying that there is a difference between the fact that someone can enjoy a movie and being able to defend the fact that you enjoyed a movie by saying that the intention of the movie’s creators was to do such-and-such… then I agree with him (but I think it’s sort of a moot point).

    However, if John is saying that there are movies that are undeniably horrible (or undeniable incredible), then he’s completely contradicting himself when he said that “there really is no absolute right or wrong” when it comes to movies. If he IS saying that, then I think he needs to be specific about what he’s saying is subjective (is it our views of the movie or a quantitative quality of the movie).

    My point might be too nitpicky and might not even have anything to do with what John is saying… but I thought it was worth bringing up.

  • John Campea

    Hey there Bruce,

    All I’m saying is that just because a movie does what it set out to do, does NOT mean it should be given credit. YOU are still free to enjoy what it did because that’s subjective.

    For example, SHOOT EM UP was supposed to be a mindless fun action film (one that I enjoyed). In my opinion they did it and did it well. But what if they didn’t do it well? Can I still argue that you shouldn’t disparage the movie because it “did what it meant to do”? No.

    Subjectively I can still enjoy or not enjoy the movie, but I can’t use the “it did what it meant to do” card are some sort of valid argument. All i can do is say I liked it, and why I liked it.

  • TheOtherJamesTaylor

    I think I get what you are trying to say John , however one little thing maybe needs to be modified.

    The part about Supercross where you say “The Motocross in “Supercross” was great too… does that mean it was a good movie? No.” Alright, I think everyone can probably agree that Meet The Spartans was never intended to be high art, I personally found it funny because my expectations were so low after Epic Movie and I ended up enjoying myself. I can recall your review of Halloween 2 from your old site where you gave it a -1 or -2 out of 10, which is totally cool, I’m all for the movie’s being subjective thing. Also, I think people are crazy to not love that film as much as you say people are crazy to love Meet The Spartans. I personally love Halloween 2, one of my all-time favourite horror sequels.

    Back to my point. Saying “does that mean it’s a good movie?” should kinda be “does that mean I believe it’s a good movie.” I can’t agree that Halloween 2 had bad acting, writing or anything negative really, and I’m sure alot of other people don’t either. Probably as many people though are on your side of the fence about it. I don’t see it as a bad movie. I do see Meet The Spartans as a pretty bad movie I happened to enjoy. Sorry to make such a roundabout route to my point. Glad you’re back to writing on Campea’s Cage John, I was hoping you hadn’t abandoned it. Thanks for humoring my rambling.

    James Taylor

  • John Campea

    Hey James,

    You said:

    I personally found it funny because my expectations were so low after Epic Movie and I ended up enjoying myself.

    SEE… THAT’S a valid point to raise. Say “I personally found it funny”. That’s perfect.

    What isn’t valid is simply to say “but it did what it tried to do”.

    Just because something does what it set out to do, doesn’t mean it did it well.

    I think we’re actually on the same page here.

    Cheers!

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